Soma ibyo bamwe mu banyarwanda baganirira kuri WhatsApp

Imbuga nkoranyambaga zivugirwaho byinshi byiza n’ibibi, haba ubwo zihuza abantu zikabafasha kuganira no kujya impaka zigamije kubaka ku ngingo zikomeye za politiki y’igihugu cyabo, uko babona ibintu, uko bumva bikwiye kugenda mu Rwanda n’ibindi….

Abantu mu miterere yabo baratandukanye, si buri gihe abantu bumva ibintu kimwe ariko uku kunyuranya gushobora kubakirwaho.

Umuseke wabashije kubona ikiganiro cya bamwe mu banyarwanda bahuriye group ya WhatsApp imwe, AYA NTABWO ARIYO MAZINA YABO NYAKURI ni ayo banditsweho gusa kuko bose bose batifuje ko amazina yabo na telephone zabo zigaragazwa:

 

Murenzi: Franchement muzansobanurire jyewe..Mu Rwanda umuntu ararwara agapfa ngo ntiyafata imiti bamureba. Is this ukwirarira njya numva?

Murenzi: Mu Rwanda abantu barasuhuka kubera inzara ngo ubukungu bwatumbagiye. Mu Rwanda Remera itatse ibiti mu muhanda Nyabugogo ituma isazi. Mu Rwanda usura umuntu wamusaba ubwiherero akajya kugutirira mu baturanyi. Njye nimunsobanurire.

Musoni:  I would wish one person on this group to react on those issues. Public Relation y’igihugu ntikwiye kuvanaho realites zihari

Murenzi: Honnestly…We are too far..Hari aho mperutse kujya mu gihugu kiruta u Rwanda inshuro 1200 nsanga hari indwara tubarusha kubera umuco wabo. Honnestly kwirarira ..kwihishira..kwirata ibyiza udafite ndakeka atari ibyo gushyigikirwa aho tugeze aha!

Musoni: Kandi akenshi ikibazo ni uko twicompara n’ibihugu byazambye. Ngo uzarebe aha naha ngo uzarebe Bujumbura Kampala Kinshasa umwanda uhari etccc

Kuki utabirengagiza se ukazamuka ureba imbere yawe??

Murasira: I react 1st, @Murenzirwose wakabije gushyira mu gatebo kamwe byose. None se ko uba mu Rwanda ntufite ubwiherero? Niba Nyabugogo ituma isazi twishimire konibura Remera isa neza. Hanyuma ku kibazo cy’inzara nabyo ntabwo ubukungu bw’igihugu bubarirwa ku baturage bariye. Abahanga mu bukungu babisobanura kundusha

Karemera: Is this a general case for all Rwandans as u say? Mu Rda hose barasuhutse kubera inzara, bose  ntibatiza toilette? abapfa bose baba banze kunywa imiti?etc…..Be honest….

Murenzi: Kampala haba ibishishwa..haba ibisigazwa by’ibiribwa..Ni bibi pe! Ariko wasanga iwacu isuku yoroshye kuko ibishishwa cg ibisigazwa by’ibiribwa ntabyo twabona. Umwanda hamwe inzara ahandi  so… Karemera icyo nakubwiraga ku bwiherero ni uko uwo ugutirira nawe aba abufite ariko akabuguhisha

Musoni: Mu Rwanda turusha benshi cyane muri Afrika. Ariko dushyizemo agatege twarenzaho

Hahahahh aba yanga ko umucishamo ijisho cg ukamutaranga

Murenzi: Nkeka ko yakahombye guterwa isoni n’ubwiherero atarangira umushyitsi kurenza ipfunwe rituma atira..kdi nje iwawe uko nagusanga ni.uko

Musoni: Ariko Murenzi azanye issue iri important. Kuko iyo bareba ishusho y’igihugu cyane cyane researchers bahera ku baturage bo hasi, Kdi ndibaza ko class yo hasi ariyo irimo umubare munini

Karemera: @Murenzi..none c aho ajya kugutirira ubwiherero si mu Rwanda? ko uvuga ngo ” Mu Rwanda” bivuze ko ari umunyarwanda cg umuturarwanda wese?

Murenzi: Karemera nyereka icyo nabeshye mu Rwanda…noneho mbwira mu byo navuze icyitacika cg ngo kirindwe?

Murasira:  Njye nemera ko mu Rwanda hari ibibazo bikomeye by’ubukene kuko nanjye aho ndi aha nta na 5000 mfite ku ikofi, n’ibindi bishingira ku muco….ariko nenga uukubira hamwe akavuga ngo mu Rwanda biracika, mu Rwanda barashize….mbese twarapfuye twarashize kubera inzara, kandi ababivuga baba banariye abenshi

Keremera: @Murenzi njyewe icyo mvuga ni uko wafashe  abanyarwanda bose ukabashyira mu gatebo kamwe

Murenzi: Non Karemera je ne suis pas pessimiste mais je ne vais pas aussi avoir des visions paradisiaque dans l’enfer. Ibigenda biragenda..ibikosoka bishyirwemo ingufu ariko akageso ko kwirarira ko kari Rwandaise

Musoni: Il faut avoir un esprit critique pour aller plus loin. Akantu gato gashobora kukuvana kuri 60% kakakugeza kuri 80%. Ariko iyo ubona ibintu byose ari bara baraaaa ntutera intambwe

Murasira: Esprit critique dukwiye kuyigira kuko ituma twinenga tukareba aho dukwiye kuba turi, là j suis d accord

Murenzi: Ndahamya ko haje abashyitsi iwacu twakora effort ishoboka ariko ntibace Nyabugogo..si mu Rwanda se?

Musoni: So ibyo Murenzi yavuze yakubiye hamwe kuko ari national issues. Si ko bimeze ku banyarwanda bose ariko ababifite si bo bazabikemura bonyine. Ahubwo abatabifite (including you) ni bo bari responsables

Murenzi: Et puis hari no kwemera uko tureshya..Simbabeshye hari henshi mpura nabyo kenshi

Musoni: Nyabugogo Ndayisaba nava kubu mayor atayikemuye ntazivuge ibigwi. Nahandi nahandi nabandi nabandi ….kuko ni centre abantu benshi bahuriramo

Murasira: Njye icyo nanga ni ugukabya za biracitse mu Rwanda

Murenzi: Uziko ku mufana wo mu Rwanda yumva nta kindi gikwiye ku ikipe ye uretse gutsinda? Moyennant quoi?

Karemera: Esprit critique objectif  ni nziza cyane uwayirwanya sinajyana nawe

Musoni: Muratembera mwese. Muzarebe ingufu abantu bashyira kuri za gare na za airport. Nimbere mu gihugu bikwiye kumera gutyo. Bikaba umuco

Byabashaija: Nyamara dukeneye kwiga kugirango dusobanukirwe nabimwe mubyo duteranamo amagambo first!Hari ingingo ndi gusoma nkabona ni nk’abana bazitanze

Musoni: Nkubu urebye kuri map u Rda na Burundi nta difference muri size. Ariko ndani twarabataye kure. What would be good for us ni uko tutahora tuvuga ko twabasize. Ahubwo tukareba abadusize tukavuduka

Karemera: @Musoni…ibyo ni urugendo, gusa ukurikije efforts zikoreshwa nabyo bizagerwaho…what we need is political stability

Musoni: Yap ni urugendo byo. Rurerure ndetse.  Ariko the key point ni rythme, Kuko nta gihugu kitazakubwira ko gishaka gutera imbere

Karemera: nge mbona key point ari political stability…then ibindi bikaboneraho.

Murenzi: Oya Byabashaija nawe duhe ibitekerezonaho nutangira kutugereranya n’abo tubyaye byo ndakurahiye ntiduhuza

Murenzi: Au fait aho nshaka kugera ni aha..Urwaye ikibyimba nashyire muganga akande…Utizeye ubwiherero bwe abuzane tujyemo aharanire kugera kubutamuteye ipfunwe

Musoni:  Keremera political stability tuyivuzeho bwakwira bugacya. Iri controversé birenze ibyo turi kuvuga

Murenzi: Political stability vis a vis imico cg imyumvire ifutamye bihurira he Karemera?

Keremera: Voila….aho rwose turumvikana Murenzi..nongereho nti: utakirwaye(ikibyimba) aharanire kutakirwara ahubwo afashe ukirwaye gukira

Murenzi: Jyewe icyo ndwanya ni.uko kwirarira ari umuco kdi n’abakurambere bacu babyumvaga uko

Byabashaija: Ikibazo gihari mwagiciye kuruhande mwanze kukivuga, naho gusabiriza, gusonza,Gukena ntaho bitaba.N’abanyamerika barafunguza ku mihanda ariko suko bayobewe ko ari abanyamerika!

Keremera: political stability..ituma ibyo byose bifutamye bibonerwa umuti au fur du temps bikagororoka

Musoni: Nuvuga  political stability ubwo urazanamo na principes zayo. Demokrasi par exemle

Byabashaija: Po. Stability urashaka kuvuga iki Karemera? Nizere ko ari ukubaka inyabutatu y’inzego zuzanya zitavugirwamo cg ngo zikoreshwe .Ibitari ibyo ntutekereze ko hari icyo byakubaka kindi kitazahirima.

Musoni: Ahooo Byabashaija 

Murenzi: None ko kwirarira hari aho biba biri a political will se Karemera? Is it lack of its stability?

Murasira: Po Stability na Demokarasi,  Ibyo bintu nziko abantu benshi batabyumva kimwe. Cyane cyane abanyafrica

Murenzi: Democratie for an african ni ukuba yiga..akarya..ntawe umurasa..akivuza…si ugutuka president! And for me ibi byaba bimpagije ibindi naba ndota habona

Musoni: Si yo mpamvu se nta Pol stabikity tugira

Murenzi: Ariko wagira political stability utaranagira Gifu stability koko?

Musoni: Ubu Compaore ugiye gutorerwa mandat ya 6 ahari azavuga ko ari kubaka pol stability?  Hari abantu bazi ko pol stability ari ukuba nta ntambara ihari. When U don’t have a long term peace, stable and independent institutions, free elections and even active pol parties uba urimo kubeshya. Hari ibihugu byatangiye kugerageza kabisa. Senegal Ghana and even Tanzania nubwo CCM isa nidakorwaho

Karemera: Po stability..turebe basic elements..nibyo Byabashaija avuze..donc inzego kwigenga mainly ziriya 3  ndetse na long term peace

Musoni: Kabisa. Ariko wabisanga he muri Afrika? Ibihugu mbarwa

Karemera: iyo ihari rero nicyo gifu kibonerwa stability yacyo. @Musoni , byose birubakwa..kdi kubyubaka si umunsi cg umwaka 1 ahubwo ni process ndende

Murenzi: Jyewe uwampindurira imwe mu mico itakijyanye n’igihe dufite..ibindi byo ntibyoroshye

Byabashaija: Jyewe igihugu cyanjye ndacyubaha nubaha nibihe cyanyuzemo ariko nanone nkifuriza amahoro amahirwe n’imigisha no kugera kubyo abandi bagezeho.A good country is a country for ours!Wabyumva wasuye amahanga. Jye ntekerezako dukwiye n’ingendoshuri tukumva uko ahandi hahumeka.#ThinkBig jye nongeraho na #LookFar

Karemera: we need to be active…kucyifuriza neza ntibihagije

Byabashaija : Being active biDefinisser numve Kareme…? Nizeye ko atari ukwicara mubiro

Byabashaija: Murasira the Pyramid Philosophy urayibuka?

Kamanzi: Iyi debate yari ifite akagufa. Ntabwo nje kuyisoza rwose nimushaka mukomeze nanjye nkunda impaka rwose

Migambi : u Rwanda mu myaka 20 njye mbara ko ariyo rumaze rufite ejo heza. Gusa ibyo bibazo byose tubona rufite twifuza ko byakemuka,ni njyewe nawe tuzabikemura. Ntiturindire undi muntu. Dushake uburyo twatangiza gahunda, business se,imishinga n ibindi byo gukangura ahasinziriye.

Kanyandekwe: I’m just LOVING this conversation. “Africa doesn’t need Strongmen, it needs Strong Institutions”! Iyi ni yo principle y’ibintu byose.

Migambi : Gusa ibyo ndabyizera kuko dukeneye actors bitanga muri sectors zose ziterambere. Hanyuma icyerekezo nyacyo cy u Rwanda nkitegereje 2017!

Kanyandekwe: Kwitanga gusa ntacyo bivuze, it all comes back down to this : STRONG INSTITUTIONS

Murenzi: KANYANDEKWE nawe ndumva ibyo uvuga biri utopic somehow..Lets try to approach our reality

Kanyandekwe: @Murenzi reality ni imwe, strong institutions

Migambi: Niyompamvu numva igipimo kizi instittions ku Rwanda nzatangira kukibona kuva 2017 ugakomeza

Murenzi: If Africa needs strong institutions then Africa will perish needing

Kanyandekwe: Ushobora kubibona nka utopia kuko for so long you were brought up ( not you personally) to believe that’s utopia

Segaruka: Any good achievement requires a kind of sacrificial acts. The problem with Africa is that few are those who are ready to play sacrificial roles. We all want to reap fruits of a tree we planted yesterday.

Murenzi: Guys mbasabe ikintu..instead of Africa why not putting an emphasis on our own Rwanda

Migambi: Yeah

Kanyandekwe: Give me a chance to explain a bit: Look at Africa! When you pronounce the words like “freedom, Democracy, justice” abanya politique bakubwira ngo NON, Africa has it’s own democracy. Fine. Ariko iyo ubajije impamvu byinshi mu bibazo afrika ifite birimo amoko, intambara, etc barasubiza ngo “colonization”. Again, fine! But India was colonized too, and so was Brazil and so was South Africa.

Segaruka: We can use either name. The difference is just an inch

Kanyandekwe:  Segaruka, mbarira ahantu hose uri wumve ko I agree a 100%. Simple example: African politicians birirwa baririmba ubumwe, etc but only when it comes to ICC. Ni bangahe batanze imfashanyo mu cyorezo cya Ebola?

Segaruka: There is a serious problem with VISION

Kanyandekwe: Impamvu nemeranya na Segaruka, nibangahe batanze volunteers to go to Liberia to fight Ebola? Almost ZERO!

Segaruka: Kabisa nta n’umwe nzi

Kanyandekwe: Abatanze volunteers ni bande? Abo bazungu twirirwa tuvuma! Kuvura bande? Abantu bacu. Please let’s sometimes put sentiments aside and see things the way they should be seen

Murasira: Ariko INSTITUTIONS zikomeye dukeneye ziyoborwa n’abantu…after all we need strong people kuko ikibazo dufite mu Rwanda ni INDIVIDUALS, abuse of power, mismanagement, inda nini, ikimenyane…ibyo nibyo bitumereye nabi, then OBAMA akaza hariya ngo AFRICA needs strong institutions, zizubakwa n’abantu bafite ziriya defauts se?

Kanyandekwe: Murasira abo bantu bafite izo defauts hari institutions ntibajyamo in the first instance Uko wabyanariza kose, it always comes down to institutions

Murasira: None se Kanyandekwe, institution ibura muri structure mu Rwanda ni iyihe? Izo defaults navuze ntabwo zipimwa mu kwinjira muri institutions.

Migambi:  Nyamara njye ndemeranya na Murasira kuko izo institutions zikorwa n’abantu kandi zihabwa agaciro n’abantu kandi ninabo batuma zitagera kucyo zigamije, u Rwanda navuze njye ko rukeneye njye nawe,hamwe nuriya wese wumva ko akeneye ko turushaho gutera imbere kandi tukagera kuri buri kimwe cyose

Njye nemera ko ubu dufite strongest leader ariko dukeneye natwe kuba strongest people kugirango hashoboke strongest institutions!

Kanyandekwe: Ni bacye mu baprezida ba Afurika bari bakora ibyo Abraham Lincoln yakoreye USA. Ariko the constitution says only 8 YEARS. PERIOD! Nushaka umanure ijuru. It’s Eight years. Muri Afurika bakakubwira ngo aaaaa ariko umuperezida wacu yatugejeje kuri byinshiiiiiii. First of all kugeza abaturage ku bintu byinshi is not a favour. It’s your responsibility!

Segaruka: Strong institutions don’t mean a bunch of strong people though. Are we agreeing on this?

Kanyandekwe: I’m with you Segaruka

Migambi: Ariko those people nibo bubaka strong institutions!

Murasira: Am not with you Segaruka. The institution you work in today is strong because you are contributing the way you should, up to the head of it. Niba atari uko bimeze, ibyo mukora muratubeshya. We need 1st strong people in institutions, kandi ikibazo ni uko abanyarwanda bumva ko ari Perezida gusa. Ibyo akora nundi yaza akabikora.

Kanyandekwe: Hahah Migambi, waba uzi uko USA yavutse as a country? By the way nayo yarakoroninwe by the same country which colonized Uganda and Sierra Leone!

Migambi: Yeah Kanyandekwe! USA nayo yabanjije kugira strong people nibo bayubatse. Nyuma abaturage bayo baza kuba strong bemera kubaha ibyo babantu bambere babahitiyemo. Niyo mpamvu institutions zabo zikomeye.

Kanayandekwe: @Migambi none se waba warumvise among the founding fathers uwaba yarahinduye constitution kuko yakoze neza cyane?

Kanyandekwe: Murasira now you’re talking. Exactly! Food for thought: Why should the president resolve a problem imaze 10 years y’isambu ya 12 hectares? And he says I want this to be resolved in let’s say a month, all of a sadden it’s resolved. That’s not a president-level issue.

Kayitesi: Interesting debate! I love reading you guys!

Kanyandekwe: To me, niba president akemuye ikibazo cy’isambu kimaze imyaka 10 mu masaha abiri gusa, kdi kigacyemuka…then there’s a serious problem? Kuki kitacyemutse mbere?

Murasira: In front of me ndi gusoma inkuru ya Munyanganizi Bikoro ngo wafunguye ikigo cy’ubushakashatsi sinzi hehe…the same guy it is some years ago bamuregaga embazzlement of billions of francs and taxes…nawe mukanya wamwumva agaruwe muri izo institutions muvuga mushaka ko zikomera….then what do you expect from him?? Strong institutions?

Migambi: Njyewe rero u Rwanda mbona rucyeneye ubu abaturage bari strong ariyo mpamvu nakunze kuvuga njye nawe!kuko kugeza ubu dufite institutions ariko kugirango zigire agaciro nuko tugomba kuzigaha! U right Murasira.

Segaruka: Guys. Define for me the following terms as concepts. Strong institutions

Kanyandekwe: Before my phone dies, how much does a member of parliament make here and how does a specialized physician make? Kenyan members of parliament are the HIGHEST paid in the WORLD mu gihugu gihora gisaba imfashanyo y’ibiryo kubera amapfa. Does that make any sense you you guys?

Segaruka: That’s a bunch of strong people in a fainting institution. Am I wrong?

Murasira: Those Kenyan MPs are just greedy, and they are the people who should make their institution strong. So they need strong MPs not greedy ones.

Mugisha: Interesting debate!…The story of strong institutions muri Africa bizafata igihe hano iwacu muri Afrika

Migambi: Ndareba u Rwanda gusa kuko nirwo mpa agaciro cyane kandi africa ni umugabane aho buri igihugu kigenga! Nareba Africa yose igihe Africa yaba ari igihugu kimwe.

Mugisha: Migambi birashoboka ariko Wibuke ko iwacu tutarishobora hose. …as a result external actors will still have a hand on us

Migambi: Ibyo Mugisha avuze byaza muri politike yacu y ubuhahirane n amahanga! Ninayo mpamvu dushyira imbaraga nyinshi muri EAC

Kanyandekwe: @Murasira, but you didn’t answer my earlier question.  How much does an MP make here vs a specialist physician? If you don’t have an answer, don’t worry, I’ll refer you

Murasira: So Kanyandekwe you count strength of institutions by staff salaries?

Mugisha: @Kanyandekwe: To have strong institutions is one of the solution to save the future of Africa ariko se bizagerwaho? Ahubwo se hari initiative zo kubishyigikira?

Kanyandekwe: @Murasira No, that’s not the main measurements even though is one of them. But it’s just a different question I threw up.

Murasira: Icya mbere abanyarwanda nitwongere tube abantu, tugabanye gukunda impiya byo kugurishanya, tureke amarangamutima n’icyenewabo, uwo bahaye gutwara yumve ko adahawe ububasha bwo kwica agakiza there we will be building strong institutions

Migambi: U right Murasira!the Problem is not Strong institutions kuko zirahari mu Rwanda ikibazo ni strong people bo kuziyobora!!

Kanyandekwe: @Murasira, you’re exactly talking about strong institutions. And I agree with your example

Karemera: Obama ” Africa doesn’t need strongmen, it needs strong institutions”  Ibi byombi africa irabikeneye, 1. strongmen to build strong instutions.2.strongmen to guard &keep institutions strong.

Kanyandekwe: @Karemera, true. But to guard them is not to change the constitution

Murasira: Ubwo rero niba twemeranya, Obama bamwe twamwumvise nabi. For ME, Africa need strong people muri rusange, si Paul Kagame cg undi…twese twese. Icya 10 na ruswa se byadukundiye??????

Migambi: Thx Karemera strong men can build, guard and keep or distroy strong institutions! Let us be strong people

Mugisha:  i Rwanda dufite policies nziza cyane….ariko se abantu bose bari ready mu bijyanye na implementation?  Subiza ku kibazo Kanyandekwe yavuze….ikibazo kumara ten years President yaza bigafata one hour gukemuka…..Hope u get my point!

Segaruka: Strong people don’t always build strong institutions. That’s a naked truth. We already have strong people.

Mugisha: Ibyo navuze hejuru nuko dukeneye both strong institutions and strong people ariko mindset igomba kubanza guhinduka

Murenzi: Guys did you learn about systems theory? For me Rwanda or Africa needs a strongly built system not based on individuals …if that happens then any element will fit into that system

Mugisha: Murenzi ibyo uvuze nibyo  100%. Kuva ku bwa  Lincoln kugeza kuri Obama….American way of life remained the same

Murasira: @Murenzi Ntabwo aribyo 100% ibyo uvuze. Strong systems are build buy strong people, apana abirirwa barya abana na ruswa mu masoko

Migambi: Ibyo Murenzi avuga nabyemera gusa akibuka ko iyo system yubakwwa n’abantu,igahabwa agaciro nabo akazaramba kubera bo!

Mugisha: Interesting debate! Before I wind up…..everybody has a homework to be an agent of change

Murasira: Icyo dukeneye ni abantu BAZIMA, ibindi byose nibo byubakiraho, nabo bakabiraga ababakomokaho bafite umurage mwiza. Umwana wawe uzamuraga iki niba uhora muri ruswa mu kurya abana, no gushaka ibya 10???? Nawe azakomereza aho wari ugejeje, azubaka strong institution gute n’uwo murage wamuhaye?

Migambi: Kandi ntitugatange urugero rwa US kuko siyo yonyine iteye imbere kuko nemera ko buri gihugu cyagira system yacyo ipfa kuba igiteza imbere kandi buriwese ugituye akumva anezerewe!

Kanyandekwe: When Museveni came to power in 1986, he said this : “The problem of Africa in general and UGANDA in particular is not the people but leaders who want to overstay in power“. End of quote. He then promised Ugandans to have a new constitution that would empower the people and LIMIT the powers and the TIME a president can serve. If you read his own words, verbatim. Here’s my question: how many years has he ruled?

Mugisha: Rwanda has come from so far  nicyo gituma tutahita tuyigereranya n’andi mahanga ariko ku bwa buri wese tuzagira ejo heza…..abo.mu nzego zifata ibyemezo batubereye ikiraro kiza

Kanyandekwe: @Migambi, have you read the book living in a state of denial? If not I recommend to read it

Migambi: Reference ntivuga gukora copy and paste utabanje kwiyigaho wowe ubwawe ngo umenye n’ikijyaanye nawe. His excellence niwe ujya uvuga kumenya wowe ubwawe icyo ukeneye!

Kanyandekwe: @Migambi, hari akandi kabazo technique kuki  twemera reference gusa iyo zidushyira heza?

Mugisha: @Migambi: Society hafi ya zose ku isi ni kimwe sauf culture iba itandukanye. Kuko hose ni executive, judicial and legislative, kereka ahiyongeraho monarchy

Migambi: Mugisha voila culture iri muri bimwe bishobora gutuma ufata umwanzuro ujyanye nawe! @Kanyandekwe sinemeraa ufata reference iyo imushyira aheza ahubwo njye nemera ufata reference iyo abona ihuje ni intumbero ye!

Karemera: @Kanyandekwe, changing constitution by a leader himself, that leader can’t be called strong.

 Murasira: @Kanyandekwe think also beyond the president, sinshyigikiye ugundira ubutegetsi, ariko burya uzanasanga akenshi atari we mubi, look also the environment beside him/her

Kanyandekwe: @Murasira, true. Of course

Murasira: Me before i condemn the president who change the constitution, i see his/her beside. There are people always pushing from behind

Murenzi: Icyo nshaka kuvuga aha ni uko system igomba kuruta abantu…Umuntu ntarute igihugu….Umwe akaba yagenda undi akaza hatabayemo ugusenyuka. Ibi ntibisaba abantu bakomeye ahubwo niko gukomera ku igihugu.

 Mugisha: Guys ni byiza kuganira namwe. Nizereko abazajya mu myanya ifata ibyemezo muzaba agent of change mukugira uruhare rwo gukomeza kubaka igihugu cyiza tuzaraga abazadukomokaho. Africa nayo ikabyungukiramo

Migambi: That’s m wish @Mugisha!

Karemera: is it true that Africa problems turns around overstaying on power? Kanyandekwe niba nakumvise neza

Kanyandekwe: @Migambi, another reference for you, in fact a wry good one. If I had a wife today: both of us Rwandans. If we had a child in the country you are in today, he/she would have the constitutional right to become the US president. That’s what’s called a DREAM! That’s why you have thousands of people dying to live that dream from not only AFRICA. But even other industrialized countries.  @Karemera  a big FAT yes. It’s contributes a lot.

Murasira: After all icyo dukeneye mbere na mbere ni ukubaka ubumuntu muri twe nabazadukomokaho kuko aho turwaye namwe murahazi, kandi umuti wabyo si uw’akokanya. Tubanze twiyubake tube abantu ibindi byose bikorwa n’abantu BAZIMA.

Gakuba : @Murasira…strong institutions doesn’t mean in anyway strong people in them…it rather means stong policies,procedures and processes….their presence, their effective implementations and their outputs and outcomes….so institutional capacity building doesn’t focus in people ….So Africa need strong institutions not people same thing to Rwanda…

Migambi: Erega Kanyandekwe ntago nanze ko strong institutions zikenewe ahubwwo ndashaka kugaragaza ko twe tugomba kuba strong people kugirango tugere kurizo no kugirango zizagire agacciro karambye nuko twe ubwacu duhinduka mumyumvire n imigirire abazadukomokaho bakazasanga izo istitutions zifite ububasha n ubudahangarwa!

Murasira: @Gakuba ibyo byose wavuze usanga muri institutions zacu bihari kandi bisobanutse neza cyane….ariko effectiveness, implimentations, results and outcomes ntibyaboneka nta bantu bakomeye, Institutions need a strong people to be replaced by a strong other people and so on….to keep them institutions strong

Karemera: Me I would say, overstaying on power doing nothing contributes to Africa problems…but good example..Arab kings, Gadhafi before death, Mutsu Hito(japan..) the list is long of leaders barambye ku butegetsi bakazanira iterambere abaturage babo..first imibereho myiza, second so called “democracy”

Mugisha: @Gakuba : turi kumwe aho …nibyo nahoze mvuga ….respect of policies, procedures, processes will be key in transforming our Rwanda& Africa

Murasira: But Mugisha who make them? Who respect them? Who put them in action?

Byabashaija: The Nation should have a Constitution, Which on base leadership will build on_Executive will be elected and Monitored in the Constitution&Legal outlook__The 3 are independent and complementaries. Sha iyi Schema ni Universelle ni na Ideale. Ibihugu byayigerageje Biratuje Vurema.Ibindi byubakiraho ni Civil whatchdogs(Civil societies,ambassador w’abakonsomateri,etc), Vibrant Private Sector,Media freedom,Equal opportunities and Social welfare.Ibindi biTewori byose wampa ntibimfata kabisa kuko byose biba byubakiyemo Self_ego. How come gukuraho umuyobozi w’amanyanga bisaba ko Perezida ariwe umukuraho? Ubutabera buba burihe? Media kuki itamwexpoza?

Uwamahoro: Exactely Migambi inzego zikomezwa n’abazishyiraho byumvikana ko ubwabo bagomba kubanza kuba strong

Karemera: a weak person can’t respect, can’t make or keep something strong something, can’t do any thing …ni bene abo bantu twamye turibo

Migambi: Mureke rero tube abo bantu bazatuma strong institutions zishoboka! Ahubwo dushake icyatuma nabandi babigeraho aha ndavuga abaturarwanda bose then Africa ikazatwigiraho! Twakora iki?

Byabashaija: I wish I would see this debate on air nko kuri RTV nako RBA.  With a Rwanda as Case of Study

Kanyandekwe: @Byabashaija, try to invite some on air, I doubt only a few would show up hahahaha

Gakuba: Hahhaha ni egg and chicken debate….mwivunika ninayo mpamvu abavuga bavuga ngo “ubu” Africa ikeneye strong institutions….kuko strong people we have but strong institutions wapi…

Byabashaija: ___Njya ntekerezako kubakira ku Mateka mabi bivuna!Ariko nanone nkagira ubwoba ko utayakuyemo isomo wayasubiramo utaziko ariho Ugana. Jye uRda ndubara muri izi Phase as my course of humanitarian inspires: 94_2000 :Emergency.    2000_2015:Recovery of the country.                   2015_Up: Cultivating Democracy and Progress to middle income country(building a strong middle class)

Migambi: U right Byabashaija Kandi mbona ari nabyo biri gutangira(2015 up…)

Byabashaija: Dukwiye kubaka ikintu cya #FEARJUSTICE #FEARPARLIAMENT  #FEARCONSTITUTION #FEAR who you serve

Segraruka: Gakuba I think that I think like you!

Gakuba: @All, we were so strong and leaders were strong..we have facts…look at individual outcomes you would assess yourself….but no strong policies or procedures…nor its implementation…its corporate management was weak that’s exactly why it failed to be a sustainable strong institutions but it people, leaders trainees and staff had an outstanding outcomes….

Murasira: Haaaa Gakuba uribeshya cyane niba uziko institutions zirimo strong people, kuko abantu njye mvuga si za degrees. Institutions zizira ibintu byinshi birimo cyane cyane abantu, ntabwo ari ikibazo cya policies na procedures ikibazo ni abantu.

Gakuba: Hahaha Murasira aho uri kuza wemeza icyo mvuga…iyo institutions izize abantu nuko aba atari strong,..nuko iba ari weak… Exactly that what happens to countries with institutions and which relies on its strong people,….it collapses at one time or another…..Murasira buriya aho ukora…make sure you develop a strong institution not a one which is strong because you and someone,…is in…

Segaruka: Institutions should establish a vision, and umurongo ngenderwaho uri tough. Any element can fill in it and look like smart.

Murasira: Ariko exactly uwo murongo wubakwa n’abantu bakomeye. Iyo haje umuntu udakomeye akagirwa umuyobozi agahabwa imbaraga araza wa murongo wubatse akawusenya ukagirango ntiwanabayeho

Migambi: You are right Murasira

Murasira: Ibi nibyo bibazo institutions zacu zifite, ni abantu, ELECTROGAZ…Reco-Rwasco…EWASA…ayo mazina ntatangwa n’abantu se Segeruka we? Kandi ubanjirije undi azana amabwiriza n’umurongo ngenderwaho bikomeye.

Segaruka: Umuntu umwe wenyine arawubaka

Murasira: Umva Segaruka sha!! Hanyuma umusimbuye yabona uwo murongo ubangamiye inyungu ze se? ntabisenya?

Musoni: Yayayayayay nasize umuriro waka none nsanze wanagurumanye. Nari mpuze none nacitswe. Very interesting debate

Segaruka: Erega icyo ntemera njyewe ni igitekerezo gipfuye ko it is enough to collect strong people somewhere and call that somewhere a strong institution.

Kanyandekwe: Some people like to give examples of the likes of Ghaddafis. Good! But we forget one important element. Do you know whats called “Green Book”? That’s a book written by himself and the country was bound to use it as a constitution. Yes he did well, but he’s not the ultimate person BORN to do well. Others can too.

Musoni: Na Kadaffi yajemo? In my view nta na rimwe umuntu azarambarara ku butegetsi ngo atangweho urugero rwiza. En plus atari ingoma ya cyami. we need to move on

Murasira: Ariko Kanyandekwe, wemera ko uko abanyamerika babayeho atari ko abanyaLibya babayeho?

Kanyandekwe: Ninde muntu wakurikiye amatora ya Scotland? Niba warumvise the guy who was beaten speech ye….warira. He said “The people of Scotland have spoken”.  Bagereranye na Kenya. It doesn’t matter n’ubwo amatora baba bayakwibye, you don’t have to kill each other. Bavuga ko Bush yayibye, ko ntumvise aba democrats bicanye n’aba republicans?

Gakuba: @Murasira among characteristics za strong institutions ni strong procedures zo gutoza abantu kuba strong (Succession plan and Knowledge Management) So rero umuntu ni policy na procedures zimugira strong..sibyo Murasira na Migambi?? First strong institutions nayo izatanga uburyo bwo gukora abantu Bari strong…naho people-oriented institutions zitanga impressions ko only peole in power aribo babishobora gusa….that a fatal error…it likely to collapse

Kanyandekwe: @Murasira humans are the same everywhere. Ntukishinge amagambo y’abanyapolitique ngo democracy is only designed for West.  Every human being always strives to be FREE, to live well, in dignity, to have justice, education etc. you know, basics! Hera mu rugo as a simple example!

Migambi: Aha strong people, americans are!Ntibashukwa ariko twe twari kuba twicanye coz y umuntu umwe cg institution imwe iri corrupt!!Reka twubake abaturage bakomeye(muri sectors zose) ubundi muzareba ko ntawe watwigiraho uburimiro

Segaruka: Uyu munsi nakunze cyane uru rubuga

Kanyandekwe: In 1964 during whats became to be know as “rivonia trial” Mandela baramubajije ngo ariko ubona waba freedom abantu batize, batazi kwandika etc kweli? He gave a rather sophisticated  answer. Something along these lines “a citizen doesn’t need to be educated kugira ngo amenye ko umutegetsi atamwubakiye ibitaro, umuhanda etc” we like to think peasants/ uneducated are stupid: and I’m sorry, but were WRONG. We make them stupid

Kamanzi: Kabisa nanjye nungutse ibitekerezo byinshi kuri uru rubuga n’ubwo nabajije akabazo bakampeza, ariko reka ngasubiremo. Ni gute wakemeza someone who is strong and the one who is weak?

Murasira: Turemeranywa ku bintu bimwe na bimwe @Gakuba institutions zikomeye zituma n’abantu bakomera nibyo. Ariko aho (ahantu) ni aho zikomeye nyine, urugero ntiwajyana inda nini muri Institutions za US cg hariya Kanyandekwe avuga. Nkatwe tutarubaka na kimwe rero twahera ku kubaka abantu. If you are greedy here now it is likely for your daughter also to be so kuko ari wowe model we.

Naho Kanyandekwe, ku by’abantu n’ahantu byo ni birebire nta nabyinshi nabivugaho kuko sindagenda amahanga.

Musoni:  Ahantu hose haba hari ingero zifatika. Belgium: wallonie iba ukwayo igapanga ibyayo. Flandre na yo ukwayo. They are always in tensions and do not agree on different issues. Ariko bumvikana gushyiraho Federal Gvt hakaba nubwo byanga. But ntabwo batemana kdi inyungu zigihugu no one can dare to touch on it. What they do is to respect institutions bishyiriraho. They continue to live and manage the country peacefully

Murasira: Because the people are strong and they have build strong institutions all along…ushatse kwigereranya usanga twe tutaranatangira

Byabashaija: Byabananiye kongeraho ko hakenewe n’ibitambo kugirango ibyo bigerweho.Kuko ibyagatangiwe ubuntu bisa nibigurishwa.

Migambi: @Musoni ikibazo njye mbona gikomeye ni iki twakora kugirango twubake strong mind set y’abanyarwanda kugirango bazashobore kubaha institutions aribyo bizatuma nazo ziba strong?

Musoni: Yes Migambi. Ubundi habanza Political Will y’abayobora

Byabashaija: Ngiye gusubiza @Migambi Mu ijambo rimwe:  Nihabeho ubushake bwo kuvangura ibyivanze:Amavuta akarange,Imashini imese,inka zirishe.

Musoni: Hakabaho dialogue itarimo urwikekwe cg kurangiza umuhango. Nka buriya UMUSHYIKIRANO cyari igitekerezo kizima. Ariko nta cyo umaze kuko nta cyo uhindura ku uko ibintu bimeze.

Migambi: Musoni buriya political will mu Rwanda ntituyifite? Ariko gushyira mubikorwa bikaba ikibazo gikomeye!

Byabashaiaja: Ubuyobozi bwacu twarabwubashye tunishimira aho butugejeje n’igihugu.Igihe kigeze noneho nicyo kubaha ibintu byose twaganiriye kuva mu gitondo.___@Migambi wabigize anketi cg interview!

Migambi: @Byabashaija mbona ihari ahubwo kenshi hafatwa n imyaanzuro mizima ariko habaho kenshi kuvangirwa ariko mbona dukwiye gushaka ibisubizoo birambye

Byabashaija: @Migambi_Kuki amahanga ariyo aPushinga ko habaho impinduka mu bihugu byacu?Ni uko se wowe unaniwe gusaba ikintu runaka?cg ni uko ugisabye ushobora kuhakura a running dog? Iyo Will niho abantu nka ba Mandela barebye kure barekura ubuyobozi batanga umurage,Ureke nka Zimbabwe na Uganda,etc

Murasira: Dore icyo mbona gikwiye, nitwihereho twe turi aha, dupime ubunyangamugayo bwacu, ubupfura bwacu (apana amazuru), ubudahemukirana kugeza no ku bagore bacu, inda zacu, n’uburyo dukundamo u Rwanda. Uko turi aha tubaye nibura tugeza kuri 60% u Rwanda rwejo rwaba rugana heza n’izo institutions zazakomera . Nuko mbibona

Kamanzi: Nka HE Mugabe Robert nta na rimwe muzumvikana numubwira ko Mandela was a strong leader

Migambi:  One of conclusions. Thx Murasira. Wamungani tujye mumyanzuro y inama!!

Byabashaija: @Murasira nizereko utadushuka, Bityo twazanishimira kuba nka Mose watwaye Israel ariko arebera i Kanani ku musozi biteganye!Ibyo ntacyo abana bacu n’abandi bagezeyo

Kanyandekwe: @Murasira jye sinzi ahantu turi gutandukanira, ibyo uvuga exactly turi kumwe. Mandela said once “change begins with oneself”

Migambi: Nanjye I agree with Murasira as my conclusion!

Byabashaija: Jye am not of that Point_Kuko ibyo muvuga ko ari byo by’-ibanze ntabwo biri quantitative. Biri abstract

Frank: Ndabona murimo kugamira iby’ubwenge

Murasira: @Byabashaija the answer is simple, Quality can make quantity but not the otherway round

Migambi: @Byabashaija duhe umwanzuro tuwungikanye nuwa Murasira turebe icyo bitanga!!

Kanyandekwe: @Migambi niba ukeneye kumenya icyakorwa dore ng’iki (in my humble opinion): I have a moral obligation to question/scrutinize the authorities. I don’t have to blindly believe everything bavuze. I have knowledge I also have to have a critical/independent thinking. Ikibazo rero ni iki: mu muco wacu we’re over-obedient. Icyo umuyobozi avuze becomes a biblical truth! It’s wrong.

 Frank: I’m very much impressed by your dreams and aspirations

Kanyandekwe: Mu bubuligi: barahanganye na tensions ariko the ultimate solution is not to kill each other NO

Frank: Guys,  with such ideas we can build the future we want

Kanyandekwe: And @Murasira, uravuga ngo institutions zifata igihe of course zifata igihe but remember ko Mandela yazubatse in less than 10 years.

Byabashaija: My Conclusion is this: We need a legacy from Leadership in Place, We need strong institutions not strong people_kuko na Young muri Rda Day yatanze urugero rwiza rwa Roosevert and Jefferson! Nugira ubutabera bukora, inteko ikora, executif itari indakoreka abaturage bazakora utabaye inyangamugayo n’indahemuka ahanwe,ubuzima bwigihugu burunning smoothly ntawukebaguza.#MY Conclusion

Musoni: Umwanzuro wa Murasira ni Paradizo. Ntabwo ushoboka pe. But if we can acheave at least 50% ku byo yavuze na bwo twaba dukataje. Hari abantu benshi bishushanya ariko bagamije inda nini.

Murasira: @Musoni kuki udashoboka twihereyeho?

Byabashaija: Musoni  ubwo turongeye dushoye urubanza rero. Kuko sindi kwmeranywa nawe. Ntabwo wambeshya inda nini hari ubutabera bushyira Sarkozy en Examen, Reba ibyo parliament ikorera Zuma, even when he is still the president, Ntiwambwira ubunyangamugayo no kudahemuka_DSK aviola umuHotellerie akabyioshyura

Kanyandekwe: Those Institutions my Friends

Murasira: Byabashaija izo ngero zose utanga z’aho bigenda neza iyo mu yandi mahanga hano ntituzabigeraho NA RIMWE tutari abantu bazima bashobora kubaka izo institutions zikomeye, NEVER, tuzahora mu gutanga ingero nziza z’ahandi gusa,  n’abana bacu bamere nkatwe

Musoni: Ikibazo gikomeye ni uko bigoye kubavana mu nzira cg se no kuba convenka bakikosora. So lets try it ourselves.

Byabashaija: Ariko Murasira nyamara twakomeje kwiboha ku muntu muzima ntitwavuga icyo yakora.Pe

Kanyandekwe: Twebwe dukura tuzi ko when the the authority speaks – we have to SHUT UP and that’s a wrong basis.

Musoni: Turi bake nubwo twabikora societe yacu ni nini.Keretse dushatse uko duhuza nabandi benshi bashoboka. Tukabiba iyo mbuto

Migambi: Kandi tubifitiye ubushobozi Musoni. Coz hafi ya twese muri ino group turi influent nini kuri societe nyarwanda muri domaine zitandukanye

Kanyandekwe: @Musoni absolutely! Irindi somo Migambi, actions speak louder than words. Mu Rda turavugana ngo agaciro/kwigira which is a good dream. But if you want to see things the way they should be seen you know ko our clean roads are built by foreign aid.

Byabashaija: Sha Iyi Debat yari iryoshyeee kabisa!

Migambi: @Kanyandekwe Kwigira is rwandan dream kandi ishoboka kugerwaho!Kandi wibuke ko dutangira turota ubundi ugaharanira kugera kundoto zawe!

Kanyandekwe: @Migambi, reba ako nakubwiye, actions speak louder than words. Of course it’s good to dream I’m a dreamer- but I also know ko dream idahagije

Migambi: Ok Kanyandekwe just let us wake up and try to find a way to cherich our dreams, am I right?

Musoni: 100%. Dream niyo itangira. Ibindi bikurikiraho

Kanyandekwe: You’re right ONLY if you’re convinced ku byo uvuga ukanabikorera. Ariko nk’iki nakubwiye I’m a firm believe of DREAMS

Mugisha: Conclusion yanjye: ntitandukana n’icyo Murasira yatanze ariko ndongeraho ko abantu dukwiye kugira umuco wo gukunda igihugu bikava mu magambo bikajya mu bikorwa, tugaharanira ko rya hame ry’inzego zitajegajega n’abayobozi beza bubaha inzego, bashishikajwe n’ahazaza heza h’igihugu biba umuco uzaranga Rwanda yacu ingoma 1000

Kanyandekwe: @Mugisha the concept of “gukunda igihugu ni ndende” cyaneeeeeeee surtout muri Afrika

Musoni: Amashyi kuri Murenzi wenyegeje. Amashyi kuri ngewe wamushyigikiye  Amashyi kuri mwese mwatanze ibitekerezo byubaka

Kanyandekwe: It was great! Abantu yaba bagiraga umwanya muri debats nk’izi muri public spaces

Segaruka: Njyewe ndishimye trop

Mugisha: Thanks ku muntu watangije iyi debate kabisa.

 

UM– USEKE.RW